I have really enjoyed reading your site over the past few months. My boyfriend and I recently celebrated the 2-year anniversary of our relationship, and I expect that he will propose sometime in the next 6 months. I told him absolutely under no circumstances to buy a diamond in a store, or to do it at all without consulting me/letting me help pick it (since I have a very clear idea of what I want).
We live in New York. He’s Dutch, and we will move the Amsterdam in late 2011. He has a friend in the jewelry business in Amsterdam that I think he might want to go through to buy the diamond–however, I would almost rather go through someone who is not a friend so that we can really be hard bargainers without feeling bad about it.
My first question is, where does it make the most sense to buy the diamond? New York through someone you know? Amsterdam through someone he knows? Either?
My second question is this: I want a round solitaire 3 carat ring (the bigger it looks, the better). I feel silly saying this but what can I say, looking at all the stones here has ruined me. Is it possible to do this between $15-20k? If possible I would love an I color with medium (or strong blue) fluorescence. I say I and not J because if we get micropave sidestones on the band I don’t want them to look obviously whiter than the stone itself.
That said, what do you recommend? I would also be happy to consider using your brokering service if it will bring down the price–I know from your site that both James Allen and Blue Nile have a markup of 18%, and I would rather not pay that. My boyfriend may take quite a bit of convincing to buy from someone he has never met–and online!–but I’m sure the frugal Dutchman in him will see the sense of it if I show him how honest you seem to be from every interaction on this website. For now if you could just answer my initial questions, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you so much, in advance, for your time & advice!
…….
I want the diamond to be eye-clean–fine with VS2/SI1, even SI2–BUT the SI2 would have to be examined by someone who swears on bibles that you can’t see any flaws!
🙂
Thanks for writing. I’m very happy you’ve been enjoying my site!
As for your questions – I would think it makes most sense to buy in NY. It has a much higher sophisticated and well developed market. There isn’t much of a market at all in Amsterdam. Aside from the fact you’ll have to pay whatever exorbitant VAT they have there now.
Most people that come to me AFTER they’ve been to “a friend of a friend” or something like that realize that the vast majority of diamond dealers usually just lick their chomps when they see someone who’s unaffiliated with the business walk through their doors. You’re better off buying online. Btw, that 18% figure is outdated. It’s closer to 10% now.
You will not be able to get a 3 carat stone for under 20K. Your best bet is probably finding a 2.70 stone. An I SI1/SI2 will cost about 23K roughly.
Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly!
A few quick follow-up questions:
– Will an I SI1 cost 23K for 3 carats, or for 2.70?
– I’d be willing to do a J with strong blue fluorescence if it will look the same as an I with medium blue fluorescence. (Maybe I will just forgo the sidestones for now.) In your opinion, how noticeable will the color difference be?? I think I have a fairly good eye for color (I’m an artist); I’m just not sure how much the fluo will actually “mask” the tint.
-I’d also be interested in a stone that is cut just shy of 3 carats for whatever reason–2.9 or whatever. Will this be hard to find?
-You say it makes the most sense to buy in NY–but I’m assuming you mean buy a stone online while we’re still living here, right? Or is there some person we should go see who you trust?
Thanks again for all your help! I have told friends who are thinking of getting engaged about your website. 🙂
The 23K is for a 2.70.
As for the color questions, I would strongly suggest you go to a store and look at some up close. As you know being an artist there’s no real way for me to describe in words how you will perceive the color of a diamond. You need the experience yourself.
Yes, finding a 2.90ct stone will be near impossible.
I meant NY over Amsterdam in a head to head comparison, but your best bet is online – and having it shipped to NJ to a FedEx facility for pickup so you avoid sales tax.
Thanks for the referrals!
Is it still possible to get a deal like this guy ended up with?? This was why I thought maybe I could get a 3 carat for 20K…
https://www.diamonds.pro/qa-20000-for-3-carat-stone-interested-in-brokering-service/
Problem is prices are a lot stronger now. The market has picked up a lot since then.
Argh–I never have any luck. OK.
One other question–are twinning wisps a pretty “good” kind of inclusion to have, even if they’re in the table? Based on the photos I’ve looked at on James Allen, it seems like they’re very hard to detect. But maybe it depends on the twinning wisp in question?
I personally think they’re the best kind of inclusion for the exact reason you specified.
Just curious, which direction do you think you’re going to go in regarding the diamond?
This is all so interesting to me–kind of makes me want to go to diamond school! I find it fascinating that one gemstone is the center of so much psychology, detailed analysis, emotion, and wheeling & dealing!!! 🙂
Well, here’s what I’m thinking now:
If we buy the diamond sight unseen (after having someone inspect it to at least make sure it’s eye clean) I want:
-Round brilliant
-I color
-Medium blue fluorescence (am fine with strong if it doesn’t make it hazy at all)
-SI1 or S12, preferably with ONLY twinning wisp inclusions
-a table of 58-60 (I know aficionados prefer smaller, but it seems to me the diamond looks bigger when the table is bigger)
-thin to medium girdle
-3 carats OR something between 2.6 and 3 that has measurements close to 9 x 9 mm (or more!) across the top.
-GIA or AGSL cert
-Excellent cut
-Very good or excellent polish
-Very good or excellent symmetry
-no culet
Would love to get all this between 20 and 25K (obviously the less, the better). My boyfriend can deal with it–marriage is a long time and if you amortize the cost of this thing over the length of a marriage, it really isn’t that bad. 🙂
I think based on what you’ve said that it definitely makes sense to get it in the States, or maybe to go through you or someone you trust here? If I can see the diamond in person I would likely be fine with a J color with strong blue fluorescence–but I’d need to see it. I tried to go color compare yesterday and the woman showed me a 3 carat “F SI2” but it had EGL cert so I walked out. (It was only 18K, though! Even going down 2 grades that still seemed like a good deal… but you said to stay away from EGL, right?)
Let me know what you think!
Those seem like good specs, but you should just know that if you limit your search to medium fluorescence it might take you a long while before you find your ideal stone. Med fluor is not so common in I colors, especially when you’ve got relatively narrow parameters set aside from the fluorescence.
For example, looking at what’s available in Israel, this is the closest I could find:
http://www.gia.edu/report-check-landing
This one seems to be the closest on JA:
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1302005.asp
Anyway, my point is, this is a very narrow set of parameters that might be very hard to find.
As regards the EGL stone, yes, it’s a bad value. The “F” is probably an “I” and the SI2 is without a doubt an I1.
The Israel stone looks nice, but if it’s VS1 I’m assuming it would be pricier. I can be flexible on the table width–can be 57-60. I can also be flexible on the inclusions as long as I can’t see them. I figured the clarity is the place where I can save money without hurting how the diamond appears, as long as I choose one that’s eye-clean.
Also, if I go look at some I-color stones and I think they look fine without fluoro, then I’m fine with none or faint fluoro. That should help widen the search, right?
What’s your feeling on culets? I’m assuming if the stone has an excellent cut there would be small or no culet.
…….
Hey look at this one!
But how do I know it’s eye clean??
An SI2 in a 3ct stone is most likely not eye clean. The inclusion plot on the cert is pointing in that direction as well.
Darn it! OK, it seems like I’m going to have to go smaller–or wait till I can find an SI2 that’s only has twinning wisps. I don’t really mind waiting if it means saving.
This one looks good though:
The measurements seemed a little odd on this one: 8.99 x 9.14–?
Something seems fishy about that stone.
Hahaha. OK, fair enough–you’re the expert.
I think this one below looks nice and non-fishy–plus it has our favorite inclusion, twinning wisps! And is therefore likely eye-clean, right?
Yes, that stone does seem nice on paper. but even with wisps, you still need to be careful on such a large stone. Take a look at this example:
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1302886.asp
Those black strings you see are twinning wisps.
OK, what about this one? I found this using the search engine on your site!
This one looks amazing!!! I would just need to make sure it was eye-clean and not hazy (b/c the fluorescence is strong). A J color with strong blue fluorescence will look like an H or I, right?
J with STB *might* make it look like an I color at best. I think you might be overestimating the whitening effect.
If you’re interested, I’d be happy to call the owner tomorrow when they open in NY. I have attached a copy of the cert.
Hi there!
Sorry, I tend not to check email on weekends–since I’m plugged in all week. Oh wow, that’s so nice of you (to call him)! The cert looks pretty clean to me. I would love to hear what it looks like from someone who can see it, though. Or maybe I could even go and see it?
If it looks like an I, that’s good enough for me. The color grade differences are pretty slight (and, as you have noted in your website, relative).
Let me know! And thank you!!!
I called the owner. The stone is now out on consignment, but the owner said that the stone is fantastic. The fluorescence doesn’t affect it at all and the SI1 is very nice. If you’re interested, let me know and I’ll have to get back in touch with them to see if it hasn’t sold yet.
Oh wow, great. I will have to let my bf know. What does “out on consignment” mean???
It means the stone hasn’t been sold yet, but it’s being borrowed by someone who wants to sell it. Possibly a store, etc.
Can we go and see it? Is it in NY somewhere??
…….
Also, does the price of $23,652.73 include your commission?
Yes.
Great. Can we go and see it somewhere? Is it being borrowed by someone in NYC?
They won’t call it back from wherever it is unless you’re on the cusp of buying. I could probably arrange for you to see it, but only if it’s available for sale in their office. Send me a reminder on Sunday, and I”ll try again in the beginning of next week.
OK, I will remind you on Sunday–I would love to see it if possible!!
I’ve been looking at oval diamonds, too–they seem to be slightly less pricey. What do you think of this one??
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1334985.asp
I know you can see the flaw in the photo, but it seems like in person it would be very hard to do so. What do you think of this stone?
A nice oval can be very beautiful. The only issue is that it’s really hard to find a beautiful oval. Ugly ones outnumber nice ones like 20 to 1. The one you picked is actually pretty nice, it’s just that the inclusion there is almost certainly visible to the naked eye.
Darn. That stone looked really nice. Any update on if it’s possible to see that round one–the one on consignment?
I’ll try to give them a call later today when they open up.
…….
They told me that stone isn’t available. They told me about another stone they have. See the attached cert. It sounds like it could be good. The cost for this one is a tiny bit less – 23,420 (including commission).
Should I pursue it further?
Sad…that stone isn’t as nice at the other, it seems. Smaller, not excellent cut, etc.
He is supposed to be sending me a picture today. So lets see what it looks like. You could probably also go and see it for yourself if you’re in NY.
OK, cool!
Attached is the pic. Despite the black inclusions, the owner said it’s completely clean to the naked eye and a very beautiful stone. Unfortunately, though, I don’t see a way for you to go see it. They don’t allow private customers in their office. They’re a major wholesaler.
Hi Ira! Sorry for the delay in responding. I was home for Thanksgiving and then got sick.
I think I need to shelve our search for the time being. After my boyfriend proposes (which will definitely be within the next 4 months), he and I need to talk about cost/expectations. I have already told him all about you. I sent him an email with some of what I’ve learned about diamonds and I think it made him nervous (I was just trying to be helpful). 🙂
So, whenever the happy event occurs, I will definitely get back in touch with you!!! I hope in the meantime that you have a very happy Hanukkah!
Thanks for the Hanukkah wishes! I look forward to hearing from either or both of you when the time is right!
You definitely will!!!!
🙂
…….
HE PROPOSED!!!
It happened when we were in Holland this past weekend! (he’s Dutch, as I think I mentioned before). I’m very happy; he’s a wonderful man.
Let the diamond-finding begin!
My dream stone is still about 3 carats… but he said he only wanted to spend $15,000. I don’t know how to do that and still get an excellent cut stone–seems impossible for that many carats. I would love to at least have 2.5 ct, if possible–?? Maybe we can at least get him up to 17 or 18. Or I will pay the difference, I don’t care. He’s a lawyer; he said we can upgrade the stone later–I would rather just do this once, but whatever. I don’t want to push too hard about this. if you have any words of wisdom, let me know. 🙂
I’m still looking for the same things: eye-clean, I color if possible with med fluo (unless you think “I” stones look pretty white anyway) or J (with med/strong blue fluo) and a large-ish table and low crown angle (is the crown what surrounds the table?) so that the stone looks bigger. Generally a medium or thin girdle seems to also make the stone appear bigger (or at least it makes the measurements bigger).
Alternatively, I think ovals with micropavé around them look very beautiful–IF we can find a nice oval, I would be happy to do that. I know you said it’s harder to find a nice oval. Am thinking between 2 and 2.5 carats, maybe a little more, if it’s an oval, since the micropave will make it look bigger. Then we have to worry a little more about color, though. Or maybe not–you’re the expert!
So excited!!!
Congratulations! Very exciting!
This stone seem to have a lot of potential. you should have JA take a pic and send it to you:
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Premium-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1333442.asp
It does seem to have a lot of potential! I asked them for a photo and will send it to you when it comes in…
…….
Also this seems nice–really wish Blue Nile had photos:
I’m looking forward to it!
What do you think of this one? (still waiting for the photo from James Allen–very excited about that one!)
I noticed on your website you said color was slightly more important in oval diamonds–this one’s an H. I thought the proportions on this one seemed nice for some reason. Is there an ideal length/width ratio for oval diamonds, or is it a matter of personal preference?
Thanks!
No way to really tell without a pic! L/W is personal preference as long as it’s over 1.3. Under that it it looks like a lopsided round.
I think this is it, right?? They never emailed me a photo but now there’s one online apparently. Also I think you have the same stone listed as brokered for less on your website.
What do you think of it? Cut looks good to me, color looks dark in the photo but maybe that’s just the photo??
Thanks!!
Yes, that’s the stone. The stone looks very good to me in the pic. The color looks fine to me. I think you should go for it!
Awesome!! So that black inclusion won’t be visible to the naked eye?
And one last question: I want to surround it with micropave–what color should those diamonds be? Also I or could I do H?
Thank you so much Ira!!! Can I tell the James Allen people to give you a commission?? Let me know if I need to give them a heads up!! You have been so wonderful and I will definitely give you a glowing review and recommend you to everyone I know!!
🙂
No, I don’t think it will be visible to the naked eye. If it’s micro-pave, H color would be fine. But you shouldn’t go higher than that.
As for telling james allen about me, if you’ve clicked on my links from the email and you make the purchase from the same computer, it should work automatically. If you order it over the phone, they’ll send you a confirmation email with a link to click. If you make sure to click that link from the same computer from which you clicked on MY links, then it should all work out. Either way, it would be very helpful if you sent me your order number after you placed the order so I can confirm whether or not it worked. Thanks so much for being concerned!!
What’s the deal with this guy? Never seen a 65% table. The measurements are big.
…….
Sorry–by “guy”, I meant “stone”…
The depth on this stone is quite shallow. I can’t get a pic, so there’s no real way for me to tell what it looks like.
I’m going to compare a couple different stones at James Allen in the diamond district at some pt this week. The one you sent me, and these 2:
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1302347.asp
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1324268.asp
But now I am also curious about these brokered ones. Neither one has fluorescence but they both look good anyway, and they’re less expensive. Can I see pics?
Thank you! Sorry to flood your inbox but I think we’re getting close to the end. 🙂
Unfortunately, these brokered stones are in the USA and I’m in Israel, so I can’t get pics. THe I SI1 is in San Fran and the I VS2 is in NY. I known the guy who owns the I VS2 and he’s not really into working with private customers. He’s purely wholesale. Plus, btw, I noticed a bug in the pricing tool on my site. That price listed is supposed to show the price including my fee, but that price shown is the actual cost of the stone. So you’d have to add 10%.
Well, even with adding 10% those stones still seemed like good deals to me, if they’re eye-clean.
Vince and I have an appt for Wednesday so I will keep you in the loop…
If you hear of or see any good-looking ovals in the meantime, let me know. Also, regarding that one that has a shallow depth–what is the effect of a shallow depth on the appearance of the stone, in general? Or is it impossible to generalize without seeing it?
I’m sure you’re fast asleep by now. You must have a lot of energy to have 5 kids and still respond to all my pesky emails. It’s just that if it’s something I’m going to see every day, I want to maximize the bang for buck. 🙂
Thanks!
With an Oval, there’s no way to generalize about cut. Occasionally, you can have very nice shallow ovals. Just let me know if you’d like me to make the call.
Yes, I would love to hear if they’re eye-clean and what the assessment of the cut/look of the stone is. Thank you!!
I’m sorry, but they said they’re just not set up to allow private customers to come in to look at stones.
…….
This stone is available in Israel, but it’s more expensive. This one would be about $17,000 total including my fees. The difference here is that I could inspect the stone and send you pics as well since it’s in Israel.
It’s OK, I understand. I think you forgot to attach the link maybe?
We looked at the diamond you picked and 2 others–I picked one of the others, but still, I wouldn’t have known how to pick it if it wasn’t for your help!
Here’s my order number so you can get your percent: xxxxx
Thanks so much, again, for all your time and help!
Best regards
Great! Did you get to use the coupon code to get ten percent off the setting?
We did! Thanks!
Great! Please be in touch and let me know how it looks when you get the ring!
I will!
…….
Hi Ira!
I hope you have been well. I just wanted to follow up with you: the ring came! Its BEAUTIFUL, and it looks bigger than I expected–!!! My fingers are slender I guess!
I think the cut is really excellent–I attached pictures of the finished product. It needs to be resized; it’s a little big.
I attached a bunch of photos to this email and the next one. Just wanted to see what you thought!
My one (very tiny) complaint: the middle stone is slightly yellower than the pavé around it (middle stone is H SI1, with no fluorescence; side stones are F-G). In certain lights you can see this (for example, under yucky fluorescent lights). Also, in some of the photos the middle of the stone looks dark–I’m guesing this is the bow-tie affect associated with ovals (unless it’s somehow the band underneath? This seems unlikely though). You don’t really see the bow-tie effect in person so much, though.
Overall I think it’s awesome–and I think my nitpicky eyes are more critical than anyone else’s, anyway.
Thank you again SO MUCH for all your help, and Happy New Year! Well, it’s not the Jewish new year, but anyway.
I hope James Allen gave you your commission on it. 🙂
Best regards
…….
Do you think a different setting would show the main diamond to better effect? I love the micropavé,…I was just curious what you thought.
Oh, and it’s set in platinum.
Thanks!!!!!
No, I think this setting is stunning. Why change it?
Thanks so much, Ira! I’d be happy to write something on iVouch!
…….
OK–I wrote a novella on iVouch. 😉
Thank you so much, again! I wish you every happiness.
All the best
I’m completely speechless. When I embarrassingly ask for these silly little reviews, I never really expect people to fill them out. And even when people do, I never expect more than a couple of sentences. What you wrote shows a level of investment that is so truly unexpected. But even beyond your investment of time and effort, your review was thoughtful and touching in a very personal way. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. May you and your fiance be blessed with all of the blessings in the world.
I truly do hope one day I can accept your thanks in person in Israel!
Gratefully yours
That brought tears to my eyes!
I’ve always wanted to go to Israel–so cool to know that when I do, I will know such a great guy!
All the best, and thank you!
What we love about them:
- No questions asked returns within 30 days of shipment. James Allen will send you a paid shipping label to return the ring.
- Lifetime Warranty
- Free International Shipping
- Free prong tightening, repolishing, rhodium plating and cleaning every 6 months
- Provide insurance appraisals
- One free resizing within 60 days of purchase
- Free ring inscriptions
- Best-in-class high quality imagery of all diamonds in stock
- 24/7 Customer Service
- Best-in-class packaging
What we love about them:
- No questions asked returns within 30 days of shipment. Blue Nile will send you a paid shipping label to return the ring.
- Lifetime Warranty
- Free Shipping
- Free prong tightening, repolishing, rhodium plating and cleaning every 6 months
- Provide insurance appraisal
- One free resizing within the first year of purchase
- High quality images of about half of their diamonds
- 24/7 Customer Service
- 100% credit towards future upgrades (must be at least double in value)
- Best in class fulfillment
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